Posts : 11
Join date : 2008-04-27
|Subject: Vatican II Sat May 24, 2008 9:06 pm|| |
So what do you all think about Vatican II?
Marshal — Co-Administrator
Posts : 30
Join date : 2008-04-08
Age : 33
Location : Philippines
|Subject: Re: Vatican II Sun May 25, 2008 3:21 am|| |
I don't know, but surely it is not that edifying. It produced confusions, and lack of interest in religion. Many Churches closed years after the council and many lost their Faith. Luckily the Philippines did not suffer much from it. Hopefully it will remain steadfastly a Catholic country and soon return to Tradition.
Marshal — Administrator
Posts : 89
Join date : 2008-04-06
Age : 32
Location : Philippines, where 8 natives are blessed to make it in the SSPX priesthood!
|Subject: Re: Vatican II Tue May 27, 2008 4:01 pm|| |
It was the Council that opened the Catholic Church to many novelties. That so called “improvements” that have done nothing but worsen the situation. Doubts have arisen due to many Catholic terms being modified to suit non-Catholic beliefs. Hence, many Catholics are now confused that some are either lax or turned to false religion already.
Truth can never parallel with lie. And no matter how many times people try to, it will never be reconcilable.
Amidst all these, we should never lose hope. Let us always remember the Blessed Virgin’s promise that her “Immaculate would triumph”. We should continue edifying people in our own humble way. How? First through our very own lives then second through our actions. Faith is dead without actions, so said St. Paul. Also, we must keep in mind that we need to respect the Catholic Hierarchy despite its seeming blindness. Patience and fortitude must always go together. Otherwise, we may fall on the sin of heresy.
mihi vivere Christus est!
“Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear.”
Marshal — Co-Administrator
Posts : 6
Join date : 2008-04-06
Age : 35
|Subject: Re: Vatican II Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:07 am|| |
I believe Vatican 2 started good but ended up in a bad shape. I also believe that it was prophesied in Don Bosco’s dream here.
- Quote :
- (May 24 - June 24, 1873)44
It was a dark night (error), and men could no longer find their way back to their own countries.45 Suddenly a most brilliant light (faith in God and in His power) shone in the sky, illuminating their way as at high noon.46 At that moment from the Vatican came forth, as in procession, a multitude of men and women, young children, monks, nuns, and priests, and at their head was the Pope.47 (It seems to allude to the suppression of monasteries and schools run by religious and to the Pope's exile.)
But a furious storm broke out, somewhat dimming that light, as if light and darkness were locked in battle.48 (Perhaps this means a battle between truth and error, or else a bloody war.) Meanwhile the long procession reached a small square littered with dead and wounded, many of whom cried for help.49
The ranks of the procession thinned considerably.50 After a two-hundred day march, all realized that they were no longer in Rome.51 In dismay they swarmed about the Pontiff to protect him and minister to him in his needs.52
At that moment two angels appeared, bearing a banner which they presented to the Supreme Pontiff, saying: "Take the banner of Her who battles and routs the most powerful armies on earth. Your enemies have vanished: with tears and sighs your children plead for your return."53
One side of the banner bore the inscription: Regina sine labe concepta [Queen conceived without sine],and the other side read: Auxilium Christianorum [Help of Christians].54
The Pontiff accepted the banner gladly, but he became distressed to see how few were his followers.55
But the two angels went on: "Go now, comfort your children. Write to your brothers scattered throughout the world that men must reform their lives.56 This cannot be achieved unless the bread of the Divine Word is broken among the peoples.57 Teach children their catechism58 and preach detachment from earthly things.59 The time has come," the two angles concluded, "when the poor will evangelize the world. Priests shall be sought among those who wield the hoe, the spade, and the hammer, as David prophesied: 'God lifted the poor man from the fields to place him on the throne of His people.'"60
On hearing this, the Pontiff moved on,61 and the ranks began to swell. Upon reaching the Holy City, the Pontiff wept at the sight of its desolate citizens, for many of them were no longer.62 He then entered St. Peter's and intoned the Te Deum,63 to which a chorus of angels responded, singing: Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis [Glory to God in the highest, and peace on earth to men of good will.] When the song was over, all darkness vanished and a blazing sun shone.64 The population had declined greatly in the cities and in the countryside; the land was mangled as if by a hurricane and hailstorm, and people sought each other, deeply moved, and saying: Est Deus in Israel [There is a God in Israel].65
From the start of the exile until the intoning of the Te Deum, the sun rose 200 times. All the events described covered a period of 400 days.66
44 The title appear in the original transcription. Father Berto first came to know of this prophecy on July 14, 1873. Shortly thereafter Don Bosco asked him to copy it and send it along with another document to Franz Joseph I of Austria, King of Hungary and Bohemia (cf. Biographical Memoirs, Vol. X, p. 49).
45 An implicit description that the men in question have convened together in a foreign land during a period characterized by the prevalence of error.
46 The marginal notes (in italics) added by Don Bosco evince his opinion that this prophecy referred to a Pope's exile. No exile took place, which perhaps lead Don Bosco to admit in 1871 that the prophecy perhaps would never be fulfilled (Biographical Memoirs, Vol X p. 377). Accordingly the only other interpretation must take the imagery as symbolic of a spiritual exile. If the imagery is consistent with the previous prophecy, then this great light must have a Marian character. Therefore the circumstances of this prophecy appear to coincide with those of the Second Vatican Council at which Bishops, in their capacity as delegates to a non-infallible disciplinary synod, met together. At the close of the Council (on November 21, 1965 the last documents where published) Pope Paul VI proclaimed Mary "Mother of the Church." This perhaps is the light referred to in the text above.
47 The phrase "as in procession" is exact, since unlike a religious procession, which proceeds from one sacred place to another, and which is headed by a crucifer, thurifer and candlebearers, this column of persons is headed by the Pope (as at it will be seen, out of the City into the countryside). The Latin word profanus, from which the English word "profane" is derived, literally refers to the non-consecrated area outside the domain of a sacred space. It is interesting to note that the other participants in the group are in reverse order (adults: children; male religious: female religious). The clergy alone are where they should be, indicating that they alone understand it as a religious procession.
48 A clear reference to the revival of Modernism which characterized the post-Conciliar period and distinguished itself by attacking Marian devotions.
49 The "end" of the procession (actually the mid-point) is a public square (a profane place). Those found there perhaps symbolize the spiritual catastrophe which overtook the Catholic world during the "implementation" period. Certainly the last phrase poignantly describes the efforts of the laity who remained faithful.
50 Another apt description of the reaction of the laity to Conciliar reforms in the period following the Council, especially as the direction of the reforms became clearer.
51 Taking the march in a spiritual and symbolic sense, "Rome" must refer to "Roman Catholicism". This statement therefore explicitly affirms that the post-Conciliar reforms have lead to something other that Catholic truth and life.
52 Another poignant description of the reaction of the laity during the post-Conciliar period. The phrase "to protect him" may refer to the assassination attempt on the Pope on May 13, 1981, or a defense of the Magisterium by personal initiatives.
53 It seems therefore that the "children" whether still in Rome or with the Pope are one in calling for his return to the City. The advent of the two angels is a solemn indication of the intervention of Heaven to change the course of "renewal" and may in fact refer to some personal experience of the Roman Pontiff.
54 These two titles of Our Lady refers unmistakably to the Immaculate Conception and Mary, who as Mediatrix and Mother of the Church, watches over Catholics to protect them. The acceptance of the banners perhaps alludes to the consecrations of the world (not Russia) to the Immaculate Heart on May 13, 1982 and March 25, 1984. The imagery of accepting a banner signifies the entrance into the service of a monarch. In this case that of Mary. And if taken in conjunction with that of the former prophecy's allusion to a vision of Our Lady in glory, then this text would build on the prophecies related to Fatima.
55 A reference, no doubt, to the few who share the Pontiff's devotion to the Mother of God.
56 Seemingly an Encyclical on Penance. Pope John Paul II issued such an Encyclical (Reconciliatio et Paenitentia) on December 2, 1984.
57 "Divine Word" is a phrase signifying the Deposit of the Faith, Sacred Revelation. The image of it being broken is a standard idiom for preaching.
58 The Universal Catechism was promulgated by Pope John Paul II on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception (a coincidence?), December 8, 1992.
59 Pope John Paul II has repeatedly encouraged the youth to consider a religious vocation.
60 An allusion to the vocation crisis in the First World.
61 The direction of the "procession" reverses; and thus the faithful begin to rejoin the Pope.
62 A clear indication of the tremendous damage done the Church Universal. The lack of citizens indicative of eternal damnation, in as much as the City is symbolic of "The True Faith."
63 The return to St. Peter's also must be symbolic of a restoration of (return to) Romanism, which is the Church founded by St. Peter. The intoning of the Te Deum crowns the imagery, since this is customary in the Traditional Roman Rite. The Angels response indicates that the restoration, far from being unwelcome, is in fact in accord with the Divine pleasure.
64 This blazing sun may be the same as that of the previous prophecy. If so then its Marian character is also necessary. Perhaps it refers to a coming dogmatic definition of the Corredemption. This would be consistent, since over 400 of the Bishops who attended Vatican II requested this; and as can be seen from the pontificate of John Paul II, he has striven closely to complete the good intentions of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI.
65 The spiritual climax and triumph is welcomed by the laity, who have weathered the storm.
66 According to Fr. Frank Klauder, S.D.B., in his article "The 200 Day March: Don Bosco and the Millennium," Soul Magazine, Jan./Feb. 1998, p. 6., the chronology of this prophecy is also symbolic. One day equates to one month. Four-hundred days represents 33 years 4 months, which is the time from November, 1965 (the close of Vatican II) to March 1999, another month in which there will be, in accord with the first prophecy, two full moons. The first two-hundred day period marks the 16 years 8 months ending August 1982, which approximates the time during the Pontificate of John Paul II when he began publicly to speak of Our Lady as Corredemptrix (cf. Dr. Mark Miravalle's book, The Final Dogma) and when he decided to consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The "rainbow of peace" of the first prophecy would then refer to the era of peace promised by Our Lady at Fatima, when the world would follow the way of Her Immaculate Heart. Although the sun rises 200 times, there are 400 days, indicating that the time period here is not measured literally but symbolically.
Right now I presume we tradis are playing the part of begging the pope to return to “Rome” or Romanism which is Traditional Catholicism.
"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."—St. Francis of Assisi